Inmates graduate from Seminary at San Quentin Chapel as part of Southern Baptist worldwide program
by Peter Menkin

The program for ministry at maximum security prison San Quentin in Northern California, outside San Francisco, proves the maxim, minister where you are at the moment. For inmate Mark Baldwin, serving a life sentence, he will prove the maxim well for with his new diploma in ministry earned from Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary based in the town Mill Valley, which is near the prison, will be ministering to fellow inmates for a long time—lifelong.


The Certificate for Ministry earned by the recent June, 2010 graduate Mr. Baldwin in the Southern Baptist tradition, as the seminary is a Southern Baptist seminary, is part of a larger and national program that applies the same maxim throughout its teaching efforts reach, which is really more than national. It is worldwide. That maxim remains the same wherever students learn and go into ministry. Minister where you are at this time in your life, and in the many places where you may be a long time in their location or place of life.

In a conversation by phone with a Seminary spokeswoman, more details of the educational program called Contextual Leadership Development (CLD) was found. CLD finds its home base at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary just north of San Francisco at the Southern Baptist Seminary. The Spokeswoman offers these fast notes on the CLD centers:

http://www.ggbts.edu/cld/Locations.aspx

CLD center:

• is established under a cooperative agreement between Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary and a local Southern Baptist Church, association or state convention
•  
• offers diploma programs in Christian ministries, theology, and church planting
•  
• offers classes in English, Korean, Spanish, Thai, Chinese, Hmong, Mien, Russian, and Haitian, depending upon the center location
•  
• is approved by the CLD National Office and the Office of Academic Affairs of Golden Gate Seminary

CLD – home page on website: http://www.ggbts.edu/cld/default.aspx

  

She points out how Don Beall, employee of the Seminary for 5 years, has the job of running this innovative and successful program of ministry-in-place. This writer was told in that same phone conversation, “There are over 60 CLD centers in the United States. A CLD Center needs to be established…It is ethnic, but has evolved to be cultural and started out to meet the needs of ethnic people to meet the grasp of learning English to provide future ministers during their student days in the Seminary program with an education in their own language so they can have a ministry. There is a cultural relevant group for every people group in their respective country. It is currently taught in 17 States, and 11 languages.”

In the specific ministry program at San Quentin prison, the four inmates who graduated with their certificate this June, 2010 will be supervised by Prison Chaplain Morris A. Curry, Jr. (an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Church). He is Pastor to all Protestant inmates at San Quentin Prison, and supervises the four graduates, and the one previously graduated inmate who is himself an ordained Southern Baptist Minister. (All are inmates.)

The relationship between Pastor Curry, the director of the national program Don Beall (an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Church), and the Seminary itself is close and genuine for they have a mutual simpatico that is driven in part by the cooperation and interest of the Seminary, as evidenced by the participation of the Seminary President in the worldwide CLD program, and specifically in what is seen as the Seminary’s important educational program at San Quentin. So the Spokeswoman told this writer, “The President is very supportive and the Seminary considers it a major outreach. We have many students and graduates in the CLD program.”

The San Quentin Prison program is the second such prison program of its kind in the United States, and the Seminary hopes to have a second of their own in another Prison. That would make three such programs.

  

The Seminary is dedicated to CLD, and prisons are a favorite among favorites because of San Quentin’s proximity to the Seminary—but 20 minutes away.

“Don Beall was one of the first teachers at San Quentin in 2007. He’s very involved in the other CLD centers because this one is special and it’s all nearby the Seminary. (He has been teaching one semester, two times a week, and every fall for a long time.)” So the Spokeswoman explains to this writer in the interview by phone.

The following interview with Don Beall reveals the dedication of the leadership in the CLD program, displaying mostly that the dedication is Bible based, and tells us something of Don Beall’s role. The interview by email was sent to this writer from Washington State, in the Western United States, when The Reverend Don Beall was on vacation this July, 2010.

1. What is your role, and how do you see this developing leadership and ministers? Peter, I serve as the Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary Contextualized Leadership Development (CLD) National Director. I work with local CLD Directors and Registrars to provide orientation, make sure they receive adequate training, coordinate our cooperative agreement/partnership.

2. Will you speak to the nature of the San Quentin ministry as a ministry in place--its Biblical authority and basis? The Bible teaches us to visit those in prison and that “some of us used to be” which teaches us that God gives eternal life to all who call upon His name. Matthew 28: 19-20 commands us to teach those we come in contact with. Preparing men at San Quentin to serve the Lord through His church in prison and outside of prison is the task of all believers.

3. Where next might the Southern Baptist Church begin another prison ministry study program? We do not initiate setting up local CLD centers across North America but respond to local Southern Baptist Church (SBC)--churches, associations and state conventions who desire to provide theological training. We will evaluate each request with a face to face meeting with those interested.

4. How do you find the support of Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary in this study program and ministry? Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary (GGBTS) provides training support and encouragement to the local CLD Director. Dr. Jerry Stubblefield (retired GGBTS Faculty member) and Pastor/Chaplain Morris Curry who serves as the San Quentin CLD Registrar. We help enlist instructors at San Quentin, provide Course Syllabus Templates and evaluate each instructor’s syllabus to make sure what is being taught is the GGBTS course listed

5. If I recall right, you visit at San Quentin yourself. Tell us something about what you are doing with prisoners? I have volunteered to teach each CLD 1111 Ministry Foundations one semester two nights a week for 15 weeks. I also help advise the San Quentin students on their progress toward earning a Diploma in Christian Ministries or a Diploma in Theology.

The graduates of this June, 2010 ceremony, complete with sermon by Seminary President Reverend Doctor Jeff Iorg, was the same as a graduation given at the Southern Baptist Seminary proper. The graduates were Mark Baldwin of California, 50; Robert Butler of California, 51; David Cowan of Pennsylvania, 42; and Darrell Cortez Hartley of Missouri, 46.

  

Speaking from a podium in the Protestant Chapel, Seminary President Iorg told the graduates, “It takes time to tell about Jesus. I challenge you to show Jesus Christ.” The Sermon spoke of the Holiness of the moment, and this writer thinks he meant by that the Holiness of the men’s new ministry in place, and the Holiness of their graduation into ministry. This wonderful sermon was a form of blessing and commissioning.

  

In the Sermon, preaching Seminary President Iorg said Jesus went to the most strategic places possible. He looked to minister to the product of people’s backgrounds, where they were, in the place where they live, and in the state of their lives. He said that for these new ministers, “The Church is San Quentin.” He offered a blessing, and proclaimed, “Bless the Lord.”

  

Donald Hart, a graduate of Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary is a teacher of men in the Protestant Chapel in San Quentin for the CLD program. He taught the four recent graduates, though did not teach the one previous graduate of the program. The Protestant Chapel is inside the Prison, of course.

This interview by phone with the writer was held with Donald Hart regarding his teaching ministry to inmates. Don says of the men, “They are very proud; it is one of the programs they put a lot of effort into.”

  

Don has been teaching at San Quentin for two years.

  

How long have you been on the faculty of the Seminary?
 
Approved as an adjunct for the San Quentin project two years ago, I was a student at the Seminary finishing up my Theological Masters--passed the Masters of Divinity and focused on research and writing. It’s between the Masters of Divinity and the Ph.D.

I did my undergraduate work at California Baptist University in Riverside, California.

  

Have you had experience in teaching prisoners prior to your San Quentin experience?

I had none. Actually, San Quentin was my first time in being involved with prison ministry. I think it was a combination of both; I did not know how prepared I was until I started. If someone wanted to be involved in this ministry, they have to have a passion for teaching for one. And along with the teaching is spiritual discipleship of the men. You also have to have the mindset that men in prison can be rehabilitated… That God has a plan for them where they are at or where he wants to put them in the future.

  

What’s the point of making ministers of men who are so far gone to the criminal side?

I think that as the men really grow in their understanding of God, their life can be lived for Christ. They can get a perspective on where they’ve been and what opportunities God can have for them. Men in prison have committed crimes and made fairly large mistakes in the way they lived life; I believe God has placed them in a unique position to minister to others in the same circumstance.

  

Because of their past mistakes they are more fully able to minister to those who are in the same place before they go to prison. I believe that through their trials, their mistakes, they have a voice for reconciliation, or voice for understanding for those who are making the same mistakes: criminal activities, or drug use. Things that the person sitting in the pews may not fully comprehend.

  

One of the biggest things that strikes me, as God redeems the men; he redeems their actions to positive contributions in the future.

  

What other Church activities are you involved with in the Southern Baptist tradition?
 
I also work fulltime, and I am ministering in a Church in San Francisco part time. I work with the facilities department of the seminary. First Baptist Church, San Francisco. It’s on Octavia and Waller, where Octavia hits market. We run about 250 to 300 people on a Sunday morning. We are in the process of growing. I work with small group ministry, overseeing them and in security, making the place a safer place to worship. The work with prisoners is a ministry, and it is a volunteer job as adjunct teaching position. All the teachers with the Seminary program at San Quentin are unpaid volunteers.

  

Phyllis Evans wrote in an article about the inmates earning a Seminary diploma (original article can be found here, http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?Id=33287. ):

Most CLD graduates have the option of participating in commencement ceremonies at one of Golden Gate Seminary's five campuses. But for the San Quentin grads, the ceremony went to the prison. More than 150 inmates and guests attended the ceremony in the prison's Protestant chapel.

  

"These graduates are receiving the same experience as our other graduates," Jeff Iorg, the seminary's president, said. "The program is the same, the people on the podium are the same, the diploma is the same, and we expect the same kind of results from these graduates as from our other graduates.

  

"Some may wonder why such a program would be offered in prison, where many of the graduates will never be paroled," Iorg said. "Our mission is training leaders to expand God's Kingdom. The church is in San Quentin and needs leaders here, too."

  

Inmate Mark Baldwin, in his remarks from the podium, told those present and his teachers that jail is a journey. He said he’s been incarcerated in three institutions—and now San Quentin. He spoke of how humbled he was by the program, his graduation, and entry into ministry. He mostly spoke of his thanks to this place in San Quentin (the Chapel), and offered his thanks for the support of his family, friends and fellow prisoners. He closed his remarks with, “Good night. God bless.”

  

Local reporter for “The Marin Independent Journal” Christian Goepel… said of inmate Baldwin, now minister Baldwin, “Baldwin has long taught Bible study and an apologetics class, which offers instruction along with defending the fundamentals of Christian faith. He is serving a life sentence, but said he will use what he learned on his long journey to promote ministry and help others in prison.”

Inmate Robert Butler spoke of this graduation for him as a “defining moment in my life.” Of the three African American, and one white graduates, all were pleased, honored and proud to be graduates of the Seminary, and now ready to enter into a lifetime of ministry to their fellow prisoners at San Quentin, or wherever incarcerated.

  

Photos by Terry Peck. Note writer and friend are shown exiting prison Protestant Chapel after graduation ceremonies.

Images: (1) Seminary President The Reverend Doctor Jeff P. Iorg with graduate Robert I. Butler, California; (2) The Reverend Morris A. Currry, Jr., Protestant Chaplain, San Quentin Garden Chapel. Pastor Curry worked 20 years as a volunteer at the prison, and has been Pastor on paid staff now for five years. ; (3) Pastor Curry. He is committed to the community through helping it to regain its moral base by promoting a value system based on Agape: "Consider others more important than yourself" (Philippians 2:3); (4) Darrell Cortez Hartley, at the laying on of hands in his robe. The Missouri born prisoner received his diploma in Christian Ministry at San Quentin Garden Chapel June 10, 2010 along with three other inmates; (5) The writer exiting San Quentin Garden Chapel which is inside the prison, a maximum security institution located in California's Marin County, north of San Francisco. Accompanying the writer is a friend who came to witness the graduation. There were few guests in attendance; (6) Laying on of hands, for the spirit of ministry was conferred by faculty of Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, Mill Valley, California--but 20 minutes from the prison. See slideshow for photographer Terry Peck's notes on pictures.

Southern Baptist seminary guest speaker examines sin: admirable talk in an ongoing series of subjects
by Peter Menkin

Guest speaker examines sin at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, Mill Valley, California for 40 minutes speaking before students, their friends, and the public with the theme, “We can win in our war against sin in our life.” Pastor Jim Fitzpatrick tells how belief influences behavior, citing Romans 6 the Bible during his admirable talk. Readers can hear the sermon in its entirety here.

Part of an ongoing series of sermons by speakers as well as faculty spokeswoman for the Southern Baptist seminary says, “...we often have music (songs and instruments) prior to the sermon – with the attendees singing – very much like a church worship service.” Upcoming guests can be found on the Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary (GGBTS) website here. “Attendees include students, staff and faculty. The public is welcome, and depending on the speaker, others may attend. For instance, Robert Wilkins will be the speaker selected by our African American Christian Fellowship. He is Young Adult Pastor, Allen Temple Baptist Church and President and CEO, YMCA of the East Bay, located in Oakland.”

Pastor Jim Fitzpatrick (Crosspointe Baptist Church) Vancouver, Washington, spoke with this writer.

Note that remarks from the sermon are briefly reported, then significantly followed by comments from Pastor Fitzpatrick on his sermon, as given in an email interview with this writer. Pastor Fitzpatrick answered the questions from his home in Vancouver, Washington, which is near Portland, Oregon.

The preacher starts off by preaching, “’While we’re always told to live a holy life, Romans 6:11-14 tells us how to do so. You can win in your war against sin.’”
Dr. Fitzpatrick is a Doctor of Ministry graduate of Golden Gate Seminary, an adjunct professor at the Seminary’s Pacific Northwest Campus.

The statement from GGBTS ends its report on the sermon with, “Fitzpatrick concluded by urging his listeners to ‘begin new every morning; to commit yourselves daily and to surrender your body and your mind – to offer yourself before the Lord. That is the way to win in your war against sin.’”

The Interview with Pastor Jim Fitzpatrick

From your sermon you say your favorites are Romans 6-8 (two of them). Will you tell me which quotes they are, and cite them or give me the text? These 3 chapters, Romans 6,7, and 8 are my favorites because of their emphasis on growing as Christians to become the holy people God desires us to be. I especially like chapter 8:1- therefore, there is now no condemnation in Christ Jesus and 8:31-39 which teaches that believers are secure in Christ. The chapter begins with no condemnation and ends with no separation for believers.

Do you refer to the Bible as reference and source frequently when speaking in the pulpit at Golden Gate Theological Seminary because of the imperative directed by R. Albert Mohler, Jr. and others who want Southern Baptist seminaries to rely more heavily on Biblical statement or source? Or are there other reasons? No, I was not aware of what Dr. Mohler said. My belief is that the Bible is God’s written communication to us. It is the source of authority. My comments as a pastor/teacher have no power on their own. The power/authority comes from the written Word of God (The Bible). I am one of many who are considered expository preachers. I always preach directly from the Bible and typically work my way through entire books, line upon line, precept upon precept.

Does your work with youth leadership lead you in this sermon as you find relevance for seminary students, though all may not be so young? Still, they are students. What is your focus for seminary students, as a tone? I just know that all of us, regardless of age struggle with the same issues. For the believer who deeply desires to live a godly life, sin and temptation are continual enemies. I felt it made sense to speak to this particular audience on this topic of Victory over Sin because it is something all Christ- followers desire in our lives.

You say, “You can win in your war against sin.” I note you use Romans 6: 11-14. What specifically tells you this is so? Why Paul, and do you lean towards Paul in your own faith and work as a pastor? These verses are very clear. God wants us to have victory over sin. Each of the four verses clearly teach that or allude to it in some way. Victory over sin does not mean we will ever be sinless in this life, but we can sin less and less as we apply the concepts found in these verses. I don’t necessarily lean towards Paul in my preaching, although I do like the 13 books of the New Testament that he wrote.

Though this question has been touched on, How did you find the seminary listener different from others you’ve had the opportunity to address in a sermon? I am not sure. Again, my feeling is that all people have similar questions, issues, hang ups etc. I do know that I presupposed some Bible knowledge and understanding that I may not have assumed with an audience that does not know the scriptures as thoroughly as this audience does.

Tell us a few words about man as sinner, and why did you choose this topic? We are all sinners. We were born into sin and we willingly choose sin. I chose the topic because we are all in the same boat. We all sin, we all struggle, and we all need help beyond ourselves to defeat sin.

I did like your statement on belief influencing behavior. It is compelling and promising. Is there more to say on, Why or how does our belief influence behavior? Will you say a little more for readers? We act on what we truly believe. If we say we believe something but never act upon it, my guess is we may not really believe it at all. For example, as a follower of Christ, I believe there are not many ways to God but one – faith in Jesus Christ. Because I believe that, I am motivated to share this truth with others.

You don’t mention the devil, as I recall. Is sin created by the devil? So many people would like to know what you think who will look at this article about your sermon on sin. I did not mention the Devil, only because he is not mentioned in this passage. However, I certainly believe in the Devil – the Bible speaks quite a bit about Satan. We see from other passages that the Devil is a liar, a murderer, a deceiver etc. He certainly influences people to sin, although we are responsible for our own sins. I don’t believe it is correct to say the Devil created sin. Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve gave in to the temptation of the serpent (the Devil) of their own free will. Jesus was tempted by the Devil, but did not choose to sin.

A logical follow-up to the previous question, at least as it occurs to me: Why can’t man ever be sinless? In a Bible study I attended recently in San Francisco’s Bay Area a man declared more than hopefully that because of Jesus Christ we are forgiven of sin. He believed that and wanted to believe it. We can never be sinless in this life because we are all born with a sin nature = a desire and an ability to sin. The sin nature does not go away when we come to Christ. I would wholeheartedly agree with the man from the Bible Study. Jesus Christ came to bring forgiveness of sin. When we put our faith and trust in Christ as our Savior, we receive the forgiveness for all of our sins – past, present, and future.

Believers will probably be right with you when you say, Sin is slavery. One is free to go, when emancipated, as your story of Abraham Lincoln explained. What does free mean? I did hear you say in your sermon, it means, “Free to live with Jesus.” Anything else? Someone who is free has choices. Believers are free from the control of sin. We don’t have to choose to sin. Instead we are free to make choices that honor and please God.

Your sermon is more than upbeat, it is positive in its statements of promise regarding sin and Jesus Christ. You say, We can win in our war against sin in our life. Have you known anyone who is losing in their war against sin in their life? What has it done to them? I think many believers live defeated lives. The reason for this is often we do not fully embrace the new life we have been given. Christians are not just improved people, they are transformed people. I regularly deal with people who struggle to walk with God and live the kind of life God requires/desires.

Your sermon ends with how sin is a matter of the heart, not the mind. You tell a good story to illustrate this belief. In the sermon that lasts about 40 minutes, and a Southern Baptist sermon can be longer, is that not so? My question becomes: Is it the pastor’s job to help the heart solely, and that of your typical Baptist in the pew? I think effective preaching engages the mind, heart, and will all at once. Christianity is a religion of faith, but our faith is not some crazy leap in the dark. It is more of a step into the light. Christians used to be at the forefront of intellectualism in our society. I think some preaching is strong in volume, but weak in content. The issues we face in life are matters of the heart. We struggle sometimes because our wills are weak. Therefore, it is essential to go after the mind, heart, and will in preaching.

To the final question, and there is a long quote from Luther at the end, so stay with me if you will. Your thoughts and wisdom are invited. Question: Is there a similarity in the different ways Christians see sin. As an example, the following quotation found on an internet discussion list, Yahoo’s Monasticlife. Please comment: Grace is the key word in understanding all that motivates God to be involved in our lives. Grace means we receive that which we do not deserve (salvation and the forgiveness of sin among many other things). I assume there is a different way that some define sin, but the Bible is clear that sin is “missing the mark”, falling short of God’s moral standards in our lives. I like Luther’s quote. I am not sure any of us need any encouragement to sin, we do that pretty well already! However, the point seems to be that which is found in Romans 6:1-4. I would paraphrase it by saying – “the flood of our sin, is overwhelmed by the tidal wave of God’s grace.”


Here's the original quote from Luther's Works, Vol. 48 in a
letter he wrote to Philip Melanchthon on 1 August 1521. There are footnote
numbers embedded in this quote, sorry about that ...

"If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious
grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God
does not save people who are only fictitious; sinners. Be a
sinner and sin; boldly; but believe
and; rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is
victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here [in this
world; we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place
of righteousness; but, as Peter says; we
look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness
dwells. It is enough that by; the riches of God's glory we
have come to know the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world; No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit
fornication and murder a thousand times a day. Do you think that the
purchase price that was paid for the redemption of our sins
by so great a Lamb is too small? Pray boldly—you too are a mighty sinner
August 1, 1521"

Luther, M. (1999, c1963). Vol. 48: Luther's works, vol. 48 : Letters I (J. J
Pelikan, H. C. Oswald & H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (48:281).
Philadelphia: Fortress Press.

Is there anything you’d like to add? I appreciate the opportunity to answer your thought –provoking questions. I also am thankful to Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary for the opportunity to share in the recent chapel service. Golden Gate is a great seminary that is doing many innovative and influential things for the kingdom of God in this generation.


Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary is a Cooperative Program Ministry of the Southern Baptist Convention and operates five, fully-accredited campuses in Northern California, Southern California, Pacific Northwest, Arizona and Colorado. For more information go here:

Interview: Theology Professor tells about cell groups and Sunday schools in Southern Baptist Church
by Peter Menkin

We talked by phone of the design of the Southern Baptist Church, and I note that it is comprised of more classroom and educational setting than worship space. That isn’t to say worship space is small. We also talked about cell groups, a recent phenomenon of Sunday school where people gather to study scripture and other related Church matters in a small group, sometimes in a home setting.

Will you tell me something of the beginnings of this “movement” in the Southern Baptist Church, and how it has grasped the imagination of Church goers?

Southern Baptists were formed in 1845 around values of winning souls, educating and training members for effective Christian living and service in the US and around the world. In 1909, a man named Arthur Flake was recruited from Mississippi to work for the Baptist Sunday School Board in Nashville. At that time, there were about a million persons in Southern Baptist Sunday schools. In forty years, that number would grow to six million and well beyond. Some of this growth was due to a book Flake wrote entitled How to Build a Standard Sunday School, which was studied by over a million Southern Baptist workers. This book taught Flake’s famous five-fold formula for Sunday school growth:

1) Know the possibilities,
2) Enlarge the organization,
3) Enlist and train leaders,
4) Expand the space, and
5) Go after the people. Southern Baptist pastors often recited the Flake mantra that “the formula works only if you work the formula!”




Who came up with the Cell Sunday School, or small group, and how have Sunday School students of various ages responded to this?

Can you tell us where in the Bay Area or even California or the U.S. where this is more popular, and something of the character of the Southern Baptist Church that takes this methodology of direction.

(I know, methodology is a big word, so if you want to provide an example to help take it out of the professional level that only the Sunday School teacher really grasps, please do. Or do most Southern Baptists grasp this Small Group or Cell Group Sunday School method today?)

Southern Baptist innovative pastor Ralph Neighbour Jr. first brought cell groups to the attention of SBC churches. He studied the tremendous growth of cell group churches in Korean and published a book called “Where Do we Go from Here?” He later backed away from the argumentative tone of the book, which really argued that cell groups and Sunday school were incompatible in the same church. His book lays out the principles and best practices for starting and multiplying cell churches.

The attraction for Southern Baptists for the cell or small group method has been fourfold. First, Southern Baptists are pragmatists and love to look into if not imitate what’s successful. It’s hard to argue with the success of the Yoida Full Gospel Church in Seoul, Korea with its near 800,000 well disciple members.

That church is based on cell groups.

Second, Baptists love what’s biblical. They want to be “New Testament churches.” The cell group or house church appears to be the norm for the spread of Christianity in the first century through the ministry of the apostles and other early missionaries.
Cell groups look more like those New Testament house churches than do Sunday School classes on church property, so many SBC churches are moving in that direction.
Third, buildings cost so it is more cost effective and less limiting to growth to simply have cells meet in homes.

Fourth, people wanting to explore Christianity are thought to be more comfortable in a home of a friend as opposed to a classroom on church property. So many SBC leaders believe that cell or small groups meeting in homes is the better way of reaching new people with the gospel.



The education of a Southern Baptist starts in the baby years, and goes through childhood to adulthood, a Discipleship program of some magnitude in conception, and thought out in a curriculum and almost systematic consideration for periods of human development. So I understand in my conversations with various people in the Church who are knowledgeable in the training and education of members, including the education of ministers. You educate ministers at Golden Gate Baptist Seminary located just north of San Francisco in Mill Valley.

As one knowledgeable in such, will you talk a little in this email correspondence about how this helps to make Southern Baptists the “Sunday School Church,” and talk a little of the emphasis for each age range in what they study or look to learn about. Please say something of the Biblical imperative, and the evangelical imperative of the Southern Baptist, if you will.

Southern Baptists (SBs) made their Sunday Schools a center for both evangelism and discipleship and built their campuses accordingly with educational space for all ages equal to or greater than worship space.

To assist this focus of the churches, the Baptist Sunday School Board (now called LifeWay Resources) publishes age-graded Bible teaching literature organized around a cyclical curriculum to cover the sixty-six books of the Bible over a five year period.

SBs were and are serious about sharing the gospel and its implications through the Sunday school and small groups. Most Sunday school leaders are trained to be aware of developmental issues at the formative stages of human development and how the gospel and knowledge of Scripture is best acquired and applied at that stage.

Churches receive coaching and training from their local or state networks called associations at the area level and conventions of churches at the state level. Most of these training events are led by women and men trained in education ministry and human development at one of the many Southern Baptist colleges or six Southern Baptist seminaries for graduate theological education and ministry training.

Most Southern Baptist pastors have a “heart for souls” meaning that they believe God’s Spirit works in the hearts of persons who receive a clear presentation of God’s love and so are drawn into a personal and enduring walk with God.

SBs believe that the mission of Jesus as God’s Son was to remove any barrier to relationship with the holy and loving God through His sacrifice on the cross outside Jerusalem 2000 years ago. It is the Spirit’s work to make that event current as conviction and commitment in lives today.

Southern Baptists are the most self-critical when it comes to whether or not people are being baptized and new churches are being started.




How can a baby go to Sunday School, or a small child? What does this mean for the baby or child?

Infants and young children go to Sunday School as brought by their parents. They learn experientially that church is a safe, loving and interesting environment. They hear music and songs of Jesus and this lays down a rich positive affective memory for their later development as they become more abstract thinkers and are able to read and learn in primary school.




The Sunday school is a large part of Christian life in the Southern Baptist Church. Please let us know why is there so much time spent on Biblical study, and how does a child get to be introduced to the Bible? Can you tell us what you tell the Sunday school Ministers what it is in Christian formation that is key to Sunday school for adult disciples and young people. Tell us, too, what is new in the life of young people in their Christian education. I understand from what I’ve been told this can mean going into the world in a missionary way to help others. What is the lesson here, and what is the need for this for a member in his religious life as a member of the Church?

One of the more interesting changes that is occurring in Sunday School and small group ministry among SBs is the movement, from students to adults, to practice “what we preach” by going on mission locally, regionally, nationally or internationally to show and share the good news.

Teenagers, college students and committed adult adults in many SBC churches regularly build homes and churches, aid at disaster relief sites, conduct training conferences related to health, life and Scripture, and conduct soccer and basketball camps.

This has become so effective that 80% of all meals cooked at Red Cross Disaster Sites are cooked by Southern Baptist volunteers. In preparation for these mission events, the volunteers are trained in personal spiritual formation.

Often called “having a quiet time,” SBs are taught and exhorted to spend time with and for God each day. Many practice the spiritual rule of well known SB evangelist, Billy Graham, “fifteen minutes a day to listen to God (read the Bible), fifteen minutes to talk with God (prayer) and fifteen minutes a day to talk with people about God (gospel evangelism).

Because SBs believe in regenerate church membership (you must have been converted to be a member) and in priesthood of the believers (all members are ministers together), pew sitting in not enough. And the key instrument for mobilizing the members into ministry has been the Sunday school.



What is the role of the Sunday School teacher or staff member in the experience of practicing what is preached?

Church leaders, whether Sunday School teachers or staff members, are the early adapters and eager interpreters of the Sunday sermons. Sometimes the subject of discussion during Sunday School is the sermon. In those instances the teacher leads the members in thinking through the implications and applications from the morning message.


About Rick Durst, who answered the questions in this interview:

Director of eCampus
Professor of Historical Theology

Ph.D. Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary
M.Div. Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary
B.A. California Baptist College
Dr. Rodrick Durst has served as faculty and administration at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary since 1991. He served eleven years as the Vice President of Academic Affairs and, prior to that, three years as the Director of the Southern California Campus.

Dr. Durst loves the classroom. He teaches theology and history from a leadership formation perspective. His passion is for developing life-changing ways of communicating and teaching Christian truth for transformation, retention and rapid reproduction.

His current research includes study of emerging church movements, ecclesiology for rapid cell and simple church multiplication, research into a biblical doctrine of the Trinity, and faith and film.

Dr. Durst tests what he teaches in his local church and in interim pastorates.

He loves cooking, hiking, and art. He and his wife, Kristi, belong and serve at BayMarin Community Church (SBC), San Rafael. The Dursts have three children and one grandson, Donovan.

(These notations are taken from Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary website.)

Interview: LifeWay Southern Baptist teacher David Francis about Sunday school, the strong program
by Peter Menkin

In a letter via email, LifeWay’sDavid Francis, Director, Sunday school, Discipleship, Church & Network Partnerships, LifeWay Church Resources, supplies a response to this writer’s inquiry regarding Southern Baptists, the Sunday School Church.

He responds in part to questions asked of Sharon Ely Pearson of the Episcopal Church in her earlier interview. The answers themselves provide a context for his statement. But note his email carries this quotation: “As God works through us . . . We will help people--through churches--know Jesus Christ and seek His Kingdom by providing biblical solutions that spiritually transform individuals and cultures.”

The questions with answers are found below this email letter, an informative and full reply that has the mark of inspiration and spontaneity:

The email letter:
Sunday school remains a strong program of ministry in Southern Baptist churches. On a typical Sunday in our denomination, about 6 million people will gather for worship in SBC congregations. About 4 million will attend Sunday school, or two out of three worshipers. My estimate is that these folks will attend one of more than 400,000 Sunday school classes. Well over half of those who attend one of these classes, typically meeting on Sunday mornings before or after a worship service, will be adults.

In an analysis I conducted with Eric Geiger, co-author with LifeWay President Thom Rainer of the popular book Simple Church, we found that in a sample of the SBC's most vibrant churches, over 87% operated Sunday school--or its functional equivalent by another name--as the critical "second step" in their church's discipleship process. 50% of these groups simply called the program "Sunday School." The rest used a different term, although I would agree with one of the comments made in response to the Episcopalian article that most of the folks still just call it "Sunday School" regardless of any new, official, cool name!

The other 12.5%? Those churches' primary "Step 2" strategy was off-campus small groups--at least for the adults. This is a shift in Southern Baptist church practice, to be sure. Nevertheless, Sunday school remains very strong. You can find a copy of a summary of that project here.


In terms of broader "faith formation," the term preferred by your Episcopal source, Sharon Ely Pearson, Southern Baptist churches have traditionally operated another program ministry to help members grow more deeply in their faith, defend its doctrines, and equip themselves for ministry and missions.

This program is typically called "Discipleship" or "Discipleship Training." That name has evolved more than "Sunday School." It was originally "Baptist Young People's Union," then "Training Union," then "Church Training," then "Discipleship Training," and now typically just "Discipleship" or some name that includes the word, such as "University of Discipleship."

Typically, the occasion for "Discipleship" offers a variety of elective options. That occasion has typically been on Sunday evenings, before an evening service. In some churches, the occasion is Wednesday evenings. In others, these elective courses are offered at various times throughout the week.

The important thing to note is that in terms of "faith formation," this program ministry represents sort of a "third step" in a discipleship process where worship attendance is step 1 and a Sunday school class or small group is step 2. Hope that makes sense! Or provides you some ammo for a probing question!

Part of our assignment at LifeWay is to provide curriculum materials for both Sunday school and Discipleship groups. Our full name is LifeWay Christian Resources of the Southern Baptist Convention, and we are governed by a Board elected by the convention, and are therefore an SBC entity. We enjoy a broad base of customers from many denominations, however.

LifeWay also operates a chain of LifeWay Christian Stores and produces Bibles and trade books through our B&H Publishing Division, along with the products and services offered through the division where I work, LifeWay Church Resources.



The Interview:
Is salvation individual, and if it is how the congregational or Church experience does enter into the experience and faith formation process? In what way does LifeWay introduce a concept of individual salvation and the salvation of the congregation and Church?

Salvation is individual for Baptists over against a "covenant" understanding of salvation held by those in some faith walks (such as the Presbyterian Church in which I was raised!). Here is a link to the article on "Salvation" from the Baptist Faith & Message, a statement generally agreed to (but not a creed that is binding on) by Southern Baptists: http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#iv.

Jerry Vogel, Director of Childhood Ministry Publishing at LifeWay, wrote: "Salvation is definitely an individual response/decision. The church experience for children should include some type of small group learning experience. LifeWay resources begin at birth to lay the foundation upon which God's Spirit can work and draw each child unto Himself in a personal relationship.

These concepts from birth through Preteen are represented in our Levels of Biblical Learning document showing the natural progression of learning precept upon precept by children. Significant adults in the church congregation provide the environment of unconditional love and trust building needed for children to begin their faith journey.

A well-planned scope and sequence provided in LifeWay childhood resources (continued throughout all of LifeSpan, providing foundations for salvation for all focus age groups beyond childhood) helps guide teachers along a balanced journey of creating learning environments for children to "hear, know and do" God's Word.)"

Note: The Levels of Biblical Learning document Vogel refers to is quite impressive, and is a great visual depiction of how LifeWay approaches 10 basic biblical concepts from a developmental view.

Here's a link to an online version:

It has a sister document, Levels of Bible Skills:.

Together, these documents illustrate our approach to "Faith Development." We have similar guidelines that guide our approach to students (youth) and adults: http://www.lifeway.com/studentstrategy/
http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/mainpage/0%2C1701%2CM%25253D200730%2C00.html?cid=RDR-Adults (click on "Connect Grow Serve Grow" handout in toolbar on right if interested)


How is Sunday school Christian oriented? That is student and teacher?

Sunday school teachers must be Christians. The students need not be. That includes adults. We promote Sunday school as "open groups practicing open enrollment."

I have coined a five-word definition of an open group: "Expects new people every week." An open group is an intentional mixture of believers and unbelievers, Baptists and non-Baptists, veteran and "rookie" church-goers. In fact, any person can enroll in any Sunday school class at any time, without making any obligation--to become a church member or even a Christ follower.

The way I say it is "Enrolling in Sunday School does not make you a church member or obligate you to become one." I also have a five-word definition of this concept of "open enrollment:" You can belong before you believe." Even if you never choose to believe. These principles are two of the distinctive of how Sunday school is practiced in many Southern Baptist churches.




What new directions are taken with students, re previous decades? Please speak to the new wave experience of Cell Groups.

I actually "debated" LifeWay's small groups specialist, Rick Howerton, in a live on-line format recently on the topic "Sunday School vs. Small Groups." This "debate" is still available for viewing online here. .

The number one challenge for the small group movement is the question, "What do you do with the kids?" Or, more seriously, at least from the standpoint of faith development, "What do you do meaningfully with the kids?" LifeWay has a brand new resource, Small Group Life that attempts to address that question.

In addition to inexpensive Bible study guides for each participant, who are flexible enough to be used either every week or every other week, free online helps are available for Bible-centered activities with the kids--written in such a way that a teenager can execute the plans--that connect conceptually to the material being studied by the parents. Samples available here.



Does praise of God enter into the equation of Sunday school? What component does this hold in the formal Curriculum?

Music has historically been an important element of Southern Baptist Sunday Schools. Back in the pioneer days of the Sunday school movement, when Sunday Schools met many places where there was no organized church or formal worship/preaching experience, Sunday Schools conducted "opening assemblies," where participants gathered together before going to their individual age-group classes. Singing was an important part of this "general assembly."

Fewer and fewer churches continue this practice today, but some do. In terms of curriculum, all of LifeWay's Sunday school materials for preschoolers and students include music as an important element. Preschool music is available as a separate resource, a CD-ROM that includes additional teaching materials as well as music.

My wife and I teach pre-K kids in our church. Yesterday, we began a unit on prayer. I put the CD in the player and set it to repeat a song about thanking God. After hearing it all morning, the kids were ready to sing it when we gathered for "large group time" to hear the Bible story. In LifeWay's curriculum materials for elementary children, the music CD is included in the Leader Pack. Words to all songs on the CDs are printed in the back of the leader guides. LifeWay's innovative curriculum for youth, KNOWN, includes an mp3 playlist:


http://www.lifeway.com/known. Music as well as serial dramas are a feature of LifeWay's DVD-driven youth curriculum, called Fuel.



What is the prime difference in approach between youth and children, and where does it break? Will you tell us something of the "care and feeding of babies" in the Sunday school experience and approach? This seems unusual, that babies get religious education.

LifeWay is one of the few--if not the only--publisher that produces a line of Sunday school curriculum especially for babies. We believe strongly that that the preschool years are the most important in spiritual as well as physical, emotional, and intellectual development. If nothing else, babies can learn that church is a safe place to go and that people who care for me there love me and love Jesus. One of the Levels of Biblical Learning documents focuses on babies and what we believe they can learn about 8 basic biblical concepts.


What music do you use?

Think I answered that above. We have actually been pleasantly surprised at the success of the new Baptist Hymnal (also published under the name Worship Hymnal) which LifeWay Worship published just last year as the "hard goods" part of an ambitious next generation online platform called The Worship Project. http://www.lifeway.com/worship if you're interested in learning more. This project promises to put great musical accompaniment at the fingertips of even the smallest church.



Why do you think Sunday school practice, that is the Sunday school itself as educational entity in the individual church is so high in the Southern Baptist church? I note the Wall Street Journal article says Sunday Schools are on the decline:

"Why Sunday Schools are Closing," by Charlotte Hays says, "Fewer children are having that experience, though. Like West Olive United Methodist, many churches have drastically curtailed or given up entirely on Sunday school for children. Two years ago, Bruce Morrison, an official with the Missouri Baptist Convention, wrote about attending a "ministry conference where several denominations were represented." During a break, he recalled, "I overheard a discussion between several of the attendees about the value of Sunday school in today's culture. The implication was that Sunday school ministry in the local church is obsolete."

Two responses, not in order: (1) I would recommend that a careful reader of the cited article read the comments posted in response to the online article. Some challenge the accuracy of the reporter's conclusions. Enough said. (2) Sunday School--or more broadly, Bible study in age/life-stage appropriate groups--is just important to Southern Baptists.

Maybe it's a cultural thing. A historical thing. And it is typically year-round. No summer break. Not just for kids while mom and dad go to worship. For the typical Southern Baptist church, the first two steps of its disciple-making process are worship and assimilation/foundational discipleship/fellowship/ministry through small group Bible study. As I note in the conclusion to an analysis conducted as a follow-up to the popular book Simple Church, "What could be simpler? Accomplishing the first two steps of your discipleship process, with every member of the family, on one trip to the church?!?" (Just Google "Sunday School in Simple Church" if you'd like to see the entire paper.)



I was interested to hear you say the worship experience is number one in the Sunday school experience. Will you say more about that and something of the role of the Sermon?

I think my point is the same as above: The worship service is the primary/first step in the discipleship process for most churches today. Sunday school used to be. In fact, Southern Baptist churches were not asked to report worship attendance until 1990, at which time average annual Sunday school attendance was 85% of reported worship attendance. That ratio has steadily declined to a about 2/3, with a typical Sunday finding 4 million people in Southern Baptist Sunday Schools and 6 million people in worship (including preschoolers being cared for during worship, children's worship, any separate youth worship services, etc.).

That is still strong versus the same ratio in other denominations. (Assemblies of God and Nazarenes may give us a run for the money!)


Images: (1) Man at prayer. (2) Dramatic Praise "Chef" Chantéa Kirkwood and the LifeWay choir, led by LifeWay Worship Director Mike Harland, perform in "The Joy of Christmas," LifeWay's 2007 Christmas program. Photo by Kent Harville. (3) Quiet white Snow creates a peaceful scene around Holcomb Auditorium at LifeWay's Glorieta Conference Center outside Santa Fe, N.M. Photo by Kent Harville. (4) The preacher Billy Graham, April 4, 1966. This is a representational and popular photograph of the Reverend (Wikipedia has photo). He is currently 91 years old. (5) Gathered Dozens of men come forward to commit and rededicate their lives to Jesus Christ during an invitation offered at the Be the Man conference May 8-9, at LifeWay Ridgecrest Conference Center. Photo by Kent Harville. Photographs courtesy LifeWay. Slideshow photographs, courtesy LifeWay (Southern Baptist Church).